Just a small question

hi, all,


    Could I just clarify with you all that for TBS, did GM says the last precept of the Five Precepts is No Drinking or No Drunkedness/intoxication?
    Please advise.


Regards
Xin Kai

Hi,

 lyciss, thanks for yr reply.
 So, it all boils down to intention?
 If my intention is to use it as a medicine, it is ok,if my intention is to conform with the social set, it is still ok?
After all, no harm( I hoped) could be done.
  If my intention is to forget abt my worries, then it is not advisable, even if I don't get drunk? Hey, as a Chinese saying goes:wine just adds more worries to the trouble, yet , ppl still resort to drinks, as if it is a socially accepted "thing to do" when one is in trouble.
   But, I think yr explanantion abt the precepts as tools to prevent  potential karma( suffering) is good!
   Prevention is always better than cure.Now, if someone says
Precepts are too restrictive to their freedom, I could say that it is in fact a Prevention from suffering(or potential suffering), not restrictive rules to their freedom.It builts happiness.
   Thanks ,Lyciss for the spark of inspiration!!

Regards
Xin Kai

Hi, Lyciss,

  To add on to my earlier reply, the reason that I anwsered it that way is becos I was considered a good drinker, I could take a big amount of drink w/o getting drunk.
  That's why i ask abt the intention issue and not the action and consequences issue.
  However, I think yr reply covers more areas.:))


Regards
Xin Kai

hi again Xin,
      well i jus want to mention if you arnt aware yet, that alcohol does damage parts of the body and the damage it does is un-repairable... this is why the precept is also there, as a warning that you will cause yourself undue suffering if you indulge heavily in it...
      your right people do use it to try to forget their current suffering sometimes, and i agree this is a bad tactic since it doesnt actually make them really go away it only makes you forget about them for several hours... mean while you are probably creating new ones in the process... so in this case i wouldnt consider it a medicine...
       you are also right that drinking tends to be a huge social thing, and i dont want to over step what Grand Master has taught by saying its ok to drink socially... i feel that he says to actually stay away from it as much as possible because no matter how strong you feel you are over how much or how often you drink, you still cant completely determine how you will act when you drink so its simply better to just refrain from it completely... so if he had said its ok to drink but just be careful of how you act, well people will choose different levels of what that means and something might happen to them and they will blame GM for saying its ok to drink...
       i remember reading about a Zen master who would get drunk... i personally feel that it was his way of teaching zen buddhism but many other masters didnt like his technique...
       all the precepts are "tools" that you can use to help you to avoid potential suffering... those who understand their use can break them without needless suffering... but only Masters are capable of understanding such things... and sometimes Masters have to break the rules (precepts) to teach... but they dont break them out right with no care in mind since their intention purifies their actions... infact you dont need precepts anymore after enlightenment because everything will become a precept...

       om mani padme hum    

I am always under the impression "not intoxication" though.

of course, drinking is bad. However, at certain occassions, we do drink right? party, celebration, new year. that is fine. But, one can not be drunk! if you are drunk, you can not control your sense and may do foolish things to hurt others!
it will then violate precept

Mimosa

Yes Mimosa's understanding of the precept is the same as mine.

Hi, all,

   Thanks for the replies.
    As my initial contact with Buddhism is with Traditional buddhism, therefore I embraced the No Drinking precept intially.
   As I stepped into TBS,GM's teaching abt this initially bewildered me,but, i do agree with what GM said.
   I think it is a better arrangement as one could be considered "anti-social" if one doesn't drink on the right ocassion.
   Anyway, Dance,Lyciss thanks for your concern, my kidney and liver is still in good condition.!!
   I would keep it that way.
  And my mother has been reborn into a better place.:))

Regards
Xin Kai