Precept

hi.
the precept in question is about sex.  one can't have sex unless it is w/ one's wife or husband.  is it ok to have sex w/ one's significant other?

Excerpt from Grandmaster's 152nd book

Living this Moment of Illumination, Chapter 4: True Purity and Tranquility:

" I've always thought that the sexual desires of men and women are normal necessities of human nature, and these needs cannot be considered to be evil, or ugly, and to be avoided in discussion. Ordinary people have the right to live a normal life of marriage and sex. According to Buddhist precepts, as long as one has not entered the monastic life, then one can have a normal sex life. Buddhist precepts and social morality only maintain that people do not commit adultery. One is permitted to have sexual relationships if not married. Yet one should not indulge in carnal pleasure without restraint, and one should know how to control his or her own sexual desire. "

      http://www.padmakumara.org/books/book152/chap4.shtml

quote from above: "One is permitted to have sexual relationships if not married. Yet one should not indulge in carnal pleasure without restraint, and one should know how to control his or her own sexual desire. "

I have thought through this issue carefully before, and this is eventually what i think:  I feel that there is no absoluteness in everything one does. How can you be sure that your significant other will eventually become your wife/husband? with that in mind, you should restraint from doing anything that will harm him or her should both of you decide to break up (cos nothing is really for sure in this world). If that is the case, dun do anything that both of you will regret later, ie. sex. Cos' you will both end up breaking precepts....and that is really bad. Hence, i think u should not engage in premarital sex at all.

no offence, pls dun do anything that will harm both of you, and i really mean well

:)
another opinion -

If GM says "One is permitted to have sexual relationships if not married. Yet one should not indulge in carnal pleasure without restraint, and one should know how to control his or her own sexual desire. "  , but somehow we end up with the conclusion that he means " u should not engage in premarital sex at all" , that seems strange to me.  Not at all sounds more absolute, very different from "one is permitted ..."

How can you be sure that your significant other will eventually become your wife/husband?
   One doesn't know.
with that in mind, you should restraint from doing anything that will harm him or her should both of you decide to break up
   I agree, but for me that might not translate into no sexual relations.  This is probably dependent on local custom!

lian hua dance
married - does not apply - theoretical value only

This probably covers the issue of overindulgence.

Excerpt from Grandmasters 152nd book:

Chapter 3: Living this Moment of Illumination, The Words of the Fire Deity:

"According to my knowledge, the human body is not made of gold, silver, copper, and iron: it is made of energy, blood, essence, and bone. Even between couples, one needs to restrain one's sexual desires.

One's energy and blood run through six blood vessels. It takes one entire day to circulate though one vessel, and six days in total to circulate through all six vessels.

The six blood vessels are named: T'ai-yang, Yang-ming, Shao-yin, T'ai-yin, Shao-yin, and Chueh-yin.

The completion of a circulation through all six blood vessels is called one complete cycle of circulation of energy and blood.

When one craves sex, one's heart leaps and one's body sweats. The body temperature rises and one loses mental control. As a result, the joints open, the nerves and vessels become depleted, and one's essence flows out.

When one blood vessel is depleted, it requires seven days for it to recover. This is termed, "seven days of recovery", meaning that one has to rest for seven days. If a couple's sex life is excessive and the frequency of their sexual intercourse is less than seven days, then they lose their essence and blood too often, and eventually are unable to recover their depletion of blood vessels and energy.

Therefore, the sages of long ago set up a regulation of restraining from having excessive sex in order to remain healthy:

   * When twenty years old, one's standard sex life should not exceed once every seven days.
   * When thirty years old, one's standard sex life should not exceed once every fourteen days.
   * When forty years old, one's standard sex life should not exceed once every twenty-eight days.
   * When fifty years old, one's standard sex life should not exceed once every forty-five days.
   * When sixty years old, one's blood vessels can no longer be recovered.

If ordinary couples do not restrain their sex life, believing that it's harmless to engage in excessive sex as they are still young, then day-by-day they will suffer the loss of strength and resource. Six blood vessels become depleted, energy and blood dissolve, essence withers, and many illnesses are generated. One would have an early death!"

   http://www.padmakumara.org/books/book152/chap3.shtml

if one were to read the decree of Lord Yama,

the rules are very strict:
http://www.padmakumara.org/books/book152/chap6.shtml

"Grand Master wrote:
The offence of carnality and adultery includes the following:
1) One's heart is stirred by the sound of erotic expressions and words - losing one's mind by listening to lustful and wanton talk.

2) Voyeurism - seeking sexual pleasure from secretly watching other people's sexual activities, recording by hidden cam videos and so forth

3) Indulgence in flirtatious and lustful conversation - sex talk and gossip.

4) Sexual harassment - touching others with one's hands

5) Writing pornographic books - describing sex

6) Sexual fantasy, indulging one's mind and imagination in lust and carnality:
When the devious condition has not arisen, one's mind generates false and illusory thoughts. When the scheme of seduction fails, one generates a malignant and bitter mind. When seeing beauty, one generates a heart of infatuation and obsession. Seeing that one does not have what others have, one generates a heart of resentment. Seeing that others are more beautiful than oneself, one generates a heart of jealousy. Seeing the beauty of others, one generates a heart of vain hope.

7) Seeking carnal pleasure - trading and marketing in sex.

8. Committing adultery and making love randomly - projecting one's sexuality whenever and wherever one wishes.

9. Sexual slavery and prostitution - human trafficking in the sex trade.

10. Engaging in sex with others through force and rape - a heavy karmic offence of debauchery and the possession of others through force.

11. Contradicting morality - having abnormal sex.

12. Engaging in sexual acts in the midst of deities and Buddha statues - an improper place.

13. Engaging in sexual acts under three lights - sunlight, moonlight, and starlight.

14. Corrupting the virtue of a practitioner - the offence of destroying another's integrity.

15. Having sex at an inappropriate time - the birthday of a god, and the death of one's parents.

This decree of the king of the netherworld deals mainly with carnality committed through the eyes, ears, hands, speech, body, and mind."

already, the tv and movies are full of instances causing people to break #1,2,3,6.  For some people, #13 was already broken. Even the act of reading those MIlls and Boons novels and Sidney Sheldon books that usually cover graphical details easily falls under #1 and #6 (yes, i used to read those Sidney Sheldon books cos they are romantic...i realised how much karma i have created inadvertently...) My opinion is: even a small act like reading can be considered breaking one of the decree statements, let alone premarital sex?

my opinion.