The; no The; S; no S

Lately, I have to write technical papers for my project, and one grammatical concept really gets me! Actually, I think that Lyciss explains it before, I read it carefully, but still ... Please kindly shed some light!! **sigh** You think that lead knows everything....in my dream......

I wrote a sentence

we have learned a  lota from the software, with the great support from you.  

my co-worker changed to

we have learned a  lota from the software, with great support from you.  

should he change to "great supportS" instead of "great support"? should there be "the" in front of "support"?

some words I know that I can not put "s", but some words are just so confusing to me!

please shed some light!

Mimosa

Your co-worker is correct in-so-far as that is the common usage - with great support from you.
But right or wrong is not so clear.  
If the software gave you lots of little pieces of wood to prop up your chair, you could be talking about the great supports it provided.  If you had already mentioned some great support you had received, then referring to that great support a second time, you could use a "the" - with the great support from you - since you are referring to some previously identified great support.

Why it is so simple!

dance

Dance

Thanks for your explaination. That is why I think Chinese is a much easier language to learn :-) Chinese has very simple grammar !

I understand how to use "the" if the second time I mention it.
I also understand to use "supports", if I receive a lot of them from them.

What I dont understand is that I thought that in English grammar, you must always differenciate singular and plural unless the noun can not be counted such as "water". (ie you can not say waters)

you can put "s" after "support", then support is not "uncountable noun". Since it is not an uncountable noun, we should either say "a" support or "the" support, but in this case, we just use "support" :-(
That I dont get it!

Mimosa

I think that I kind of get it. I just read another grammar paper, it said that some nounts can be used countable and uncountable. I knew that, but sometimes I still make bad mistakes!

Mimosa

Right -
used as you originally did, support is an "uncountable noun" (which I had not heard of before, but it makes sense)

used the other way, as I did to confuse you, supports can be counted, but we are talking about something different then, and "support" might as well be a different word.

yours truly,
dance

I feel your pain Mimosa...

      sometimes you cant stick to the rules to explain word use... i think if i were to start following the "rules" for english grammer, i would run into problems like you... i think the best way is simply memorization...

        it is cool that you ask... because it makes perfect... 8) or was that practice?

    om mani padme hum    

here's another instance
"I met him yesterday and he is as comical as before," said Sally.

A strict grammatical conversion to reported speech would be:
Sally said she had met him the day before and that he was as comical as before.

Yet, this statement has a connotation that he is dead. THe accpetable way of writing would be:
Sally said she had met him the day before and that he is as comical as before.

As for the "support" incident, i tend to support mimosa -- it should be without the "s". It is like the word "furniture" which is not countable.

There is another problem with the original statement: "we have learnt a lot from the software, with great support from you."

It should be:
"we have learnt a lot of the software, with great support from you."

This is because in the first instance, it assumes 'software' is a human when you use 'from' (just like you learnt a lot from somebody). it is like saying, "The school has great teachers", implying that the school is a person who has procreated a huge load of teachers. It would lead to less misunerstanding if the statement is changed to "There are great teachers in the school". A poor example, but you get my point...

i learnt it the hard way from a strict editor...

:(

Mimosa,

Some suggestions:

1) As a result of your tireless support, our knowledge of the software have greatly improved.

2) We are now more knowledgeable of the software, as a result of your tireless (or great) support.

May.

haahaa..

funny! (short for "you're funny!").

;D

I feel your pain Mimosa...
##even though I have been living in USA for so long, I still can not master English. Then again, I think that it is because I also learned so many other languages. I never want to master in one language anyway.

grammer, i would run into problems like you... i think the best way is simply memorization...  
##I like rules :-( make life easier! Memorization is not so easy, but...sometimes language is like that.


   it is cool that you ask... because it makes perfect...  or was that practice?
##hahah..I was debating if I should ask. Such simple question. But, if I dont ask, I stay stupid for the rest of my life, that is worse!

Mimosa

    om mani padme hum

Yet, this statement has a connotation that he is dead. THe accpetable way of writing would be:
Sally said she had met him the day before and that he is as comical as before.

##Jessie!! Yes, first strict grammar example is what we learned in school but it did imply that the person is dead. Your acceptable way is better. English grammar is very confusing and painful. Sticking with rules may not be a good idea sometimes. *headache**

I still love English very much. I love challenges :-)

Mimosa

{mimosa}: even though I have been living in USA for so long, I still can not master English.

mimosa, dun say that...i have a caucasian boss whose english is not as good as yours! It's so bad that many of my colleagues have to re-read her email to understand what she's saying...

not only that, there are few people out there who are effectively bilingual... take me for example: i can't speak well; yet i write better than i speak.

I have colleagues who majored in the english language during university days, but would use grammatically-incorrect phrases such as "...comprising of..."

you should be proud of yourself!

Thanks Jessie and Dace, but my goal is to write like a highly-educated native person!

I know that many native people can not write well, and that is why I am so strick when selecting an editor. If the editor's English is not BETTER than mine, then there is no hope.

Well, I will continue to read and write!!!!! Thanks all for helping me to be a better writer!!

Mimosa

please educate my poor brain here.

The term "Triple Light" means that the three lights we visualize while invoking buddhas.

Notice there is no  “s”, then why we use “s” in the  "Four Noble Truths". But, then we don’t use “s” in the  "Eightfold Correct Path".

While ago, an editor and I used the term "Eightfold Waters" for 8 kinds of waters in the heaven. I also use "Eight Dignified Empowerments", a consolidated name for 8 empowerment.

I just want to learn this so I can compile my dictionary and educate for my little poor brain!!

I am quite puzzled!! Please shed some light!

Usage is important.

Triple is an adjective.  If you say light or lights I don't think one is more correct than the other, but since triple means 'to have three parts' then in that sense, it would be better to omit the 's' if you are talking about one light that has three parts.

If they are three separate lights, then use lights.  
English is weird. When in doubt, just use your gut! (i'm kidding)  

BTW, I've always heard 'Empowerment of the Three Lights' but I have never heard 'Triple Light.'   Not that it really matters, but please advise on this when you can
Thanks

Lu

May also educated me on this, share it with you. I am going to post the final work, so you can see what I am talking about it.

Book 155 – The Brilliance of Moonlight
Chapter 8 – Mountain Demon



Let me try and see whether I can explain it.
Triple means 3 times or 3 types, which in itself, is already a plural.
Therefore Triple Light = 3 Types of Light. You do not say 3 types of Lights, in this context.
Throughout the paragraph I still use “This light…” instead of “These lights…” because I still want the readers to be aware of or still attached to the Triple Light. It is considered as a set.

“Four Noble Truths”. There is First Noble Truth, Second Noble Truth, Third Noble Truth and Fourth Noble Truth. All in all, there are 4 of them, and therefore appropriate to say “Four Noble Truths”, like Four Cars, or Four Trees.

“Eightfold Path”. “Eightfold” is 8 times something. So in this case, there are 8 types of path. I guess it is the same as “Triple Light”. However, I do notice people writing “Eightfold paths”, that is, with a ‘s’.

Please ask the others as well just in case I do not make any sense.

I think that I start to get it..I hope

#BTW, I've always heard 'Empowerment of the Three Lights' but I have never heard 'Triple Light.'   Not that it really matters, but please advise on this when you can
Thanks


Lu, when you say Om Ah Hum, then you visitualize three lights rediating atop of you to invoke the buddhas. The three lights I am taking about.

In this case, I think either three lights or Triple Light is fine, but not Triple Lights.


Mimosa

#why the "eightfold waters" is funny, and doesn't seem to fit the general pattern.  I was going to explain it to you very coherently, but I am not sure what the explanation is!



hmmm..so should we use eightfold water? it is 8 types of waters...

Mimosa

okay! boy!! thank you all!

it is a boy, not boys :-)  ;D

Mimosa

Well, actually, there is a case where you can say 'waters'. "These waters are full of fish."
;) I know that it is confusing, but as was pointed out, hardly anybody at any education level speaks or writes anywhere nearly correct English. I heard a newscaster last night talking about the president and first lady's anniversary. "Today was a special day for he and the first lady", he said. HIM! not he!
My old English teacher would have rapped his knuckles for that one.
More and more, in the new age of education, grammar is less and less stressed. Face it...it is dull and repetitive and makes no sense. You have to memorize it, learn the rules, learn the exceptions, and mainly read and write a lot. In the old days, hour after hour diagraming sentences was the norm.
And I need not even mention 'corporate speak' , 'government speak' and, God forbid, ebonics. We're apt to hear sentences like this in the future. "At this point in time, he be maximizing the definitive interface of the user-directed verbiage."

English is hard, but I love it!

Mimosa