Buddhafly10/14/02 at 17:40:32#1
Does anyone know the exact protocol when one walks into a temple and why we do it?
Example:
1: It's tradition to take off one's shoes.
2: Prostrations as showing signs of respect.
3: Clapping our hands together and snapping our fingers..
do we do that before we prostrate when we first come in?
...........
Please all feel free to add to the list and help to give answers as well.
Thank you.
Brenda
may10/16/02 at 05:36:31#2Re: Temple ProtocolWhen sitting on the floor, we usually sit with legs crossed, half-lotus or full-lotus position.
It is a sign of disrespect to have our feet pointed towards the shrine.
celestialmaiden10/16/02 at 18:28:12#3Re: Temple ProtocolI remember reading a story in one of Grandmaster's books about a monk who was sleeping in the main hall of a temple. His feet were pointing towards the shrine when he slept and the abbot of the temple told him it was disrespectful to have his feet facing that direction. Then the monk exclaimed, "Which direction can I put my feet where the Buddha does not reside?" since the Buddha resides in the ten directions.
Lyciss10/16/02 at 19:17:15#4Re: Temple ProtocolCele,
im so glad you posted that... i think there are two aspects to temple protocol... if we make a list of the steps and one follows with no good intention, they are only following the steps empty of respect then are they really doing anything? i think the best protocol is with ones own heart and intentions rather then to follow a standard... you can improve or make changes where you see fit...
like for example, what if it was a protocol that every time you saw a begger or homeless person that you had to give them food or money... is one really generous or is one simply only following protocol?
i know in the practices there is a protocol to follow but i also feel at the same time i think its more for convience then a strict guideline... helps one to practice as a group if a guideline is followed, but not all aspects have to be identical for it to be effective...
the monk put it best, "which direction then?"
om mani padme hum
Last edited 10/16/02 at 19:21:17 by Lyciss
Buddhafly10/17/02 at 01:01:50#5Re: Temple Protocol
I found out very early that pointing one's feet towards
the shrine was not good.
The reason I put this posting up is because many people
do not do things that's most common when going into
a temple because they do not know.
For instance, with the incense sticks, does one know what to think when we raise them to our brow chakra and why?
What is the reason that we do not only use one incense pot for all the beings? That one still has me, especially now we have one outside the temple that people put incense into as well.
Last edited 11/10/02 at 18:55:07 by Buddhafly
lian hua dance10/17/02 at 05:47:24#6Re: Temple Protocol :)
Regarding pointing feet -
Even though it was the opportunity for the remark from the sleeping monk, I don't think it would have been so convincing if he were awake when he was pointing his feet at the shrine - To most Americans, the idea of pointing feet at something being rude and insulting doesn't register easily, and seems very arbitrary and petty. But in countries where this is the norm, everyone is very conscious of where their feet are pointing, and everyone would immediately notice feet pointing towards the shrine. This was my experience in India. Learning not to point your feet at someone iin India is like learning what "innocent" hand gestures to avoid in Italy.
A different abbot, instead of reprimanding the monk, would have probably just moved the sleeping monk's feet so they weren't pointing at the shrine, and left him alone.
lian hua dance
darrellmc10/17/02 at 06:19:29#7Re: Temple ProtocolIt has been my experience with the people in the temples of TBS that they are very forgiving of any little lapses in etiquette on my part. A lot of it is cultural difference, more than strictly being related to the temple. For example, I learned that, to most Asians, most Westerners talk too loud and touch too much. :) I was introduced to a Tibetan lama once and when I (naturally to me) reached out my hand to shake hands, a look came over his face a lot like panic. It isn't easy to make a lama lose his composure, but that did it.
It must have been like, for us, meeting someone for the first time and giving him or her a big kiss on the lips. :/
When there is a guest, the host goes out of his way to adapt to the guest and make him comfortable; at the same time the guest adapts to the ways of the host, so as to not intrude or make the host uncomfortable. But when the guest becomes part of the family, he is expected to abide by the family ways. When in Rome, do as they do in Rome. Westerners, particularly Amuurricuns, are not big on ritual, though. So fitting into a Tantric temple is not natural in the first place.
I've seen several, including myself sometimes, who prostrate three times, etc. when entering a shrine room, but only if someone is looking. Otherwise they just go sit down. Same with placing palms together when meeting someone. It feels really phony until you get used to it. Sorta like saluting in the military.
celestialmaiden10/18/02 at 18:36:19#8Re: Temple ProtocolI agree with you all. I think that sometimes such protocols are for the purpose of easing the hearts of those around us by doing what is expected of those cultures. The Buddha's will never get offended if we point our feet at the shrine; it is only those around us who will (and maybe the dharma protectors). I also agree with Lyciss that the intention is the part that counts. However, that is the part which others cannot see. As well, I don't think it is healthy to be too strict and rigid with rules. They should be flexible.
Personally, I have been scolded at for pointing my feet towards the altar. I was sitting in meditation for a long time and my legs felt very cramped, so I decided to stretch my feet out. Prior to doing this, I had already read the story about the monk so I stretched my feet in the direction I was facing as a matter of convenience. Naturally, I was facing the shrine to do meditation. However, a dharma sister came and scolded me and told me not to do it again. I agreed to do so only because I knew that she and others would take it to offence. But inside, I don't really cling to it as a right or wrong action as long as I don't have bad intentions. It is just a matter of custom.
lian hua dance10/18/02 at 21:18:24#9Re: Temple Protocol :)
Any ideas for Brenda's question about the incense? -
people all come in, kneel down, put incense to their forheads is if they were doing something, but I don't know what it is.
darrellmc10/19/02 at 05:52:07#10Re: Temple ProtocolI can't really say what the others are doing, but I am visualizing the incense smoke and aroma going through all the worlds, and all the beings coming to participate, or at least observe and enjoy.
Something like the Incense Praise Song.
I wrote a poem one time about incense.
The incense is burning, becoming less
The ash is falling, becoming earth
The smoke rises, becoming air
The sweet smell lingers.
So it goes.
Lyciss10/19/02 at 10:59:34#11Re: Temple ProtocolOk... this is something that i came to upon my own reflection...
after i learned that incense is used to purify... i naturally concluded that ill use three sticks, one for mind, one for body and one for speech... first i light them then i flick out the flame, make sure not to blow-out the flame... i remember reading some time ago that blowing them out is not clean, so you flick ur wrist quickly enough to let the air around them put the flame out... then i proceed to offer the three sticks to Grand Master, Lineage Masters, The Buddhas, The Bodhisattvas, To the Vajra Protectors and to all sentient beings... and visualize the three sticks filling up the entire void... and recite Om Ah Hum to purify the visualization... then i take them out... i dont know if there are three incent pots outside of every temple but i put one in the main pot, then i offer one to the Dragon to the right and i place the last in the pot outside the ancestor room...
is this proper? i have no idea... no one taught me this method, it was just something i put together... i feel good about it, so i will probably continue to do it until someone finds fault in it and informs me otherwise... lol
om mani padme hum
mimosa10/21/02 at 12:31:56#12Re: Temple Protocolminor but important thing about incense.
after you lit the incense, you should NOT use mouth to blow away the fire. Your mouth has speech karma, so you dont do.
use your hands or fan or whatever to blow it off
pay attention to masters or reverends next time, you will know what I am saying is true.
Mimosa
Buddhafly10/22/02 at 12:31:27#13Re: Temple Protocol
When I first started attending TBS, I was taught to
bring the incense up to my brow chakra, and visualize
all the Buddha's ascending to the shrine, and when I placed the incence in the incence pot I silently chant OM AH HUM SO HA each time I placed one in the pot.
I use three incense because I thought it was for all three pots then.
Now the reason we use different incence pots, like in the Edmonton temple is beyond me. Especially the one outside!
If anyone can help me on this one please ad to the string.
Thank you.
Brenda.
Last edited 11/10/02 at 18:55:54 by Buddhafly