Buddhafly10/24/02 at 12:31:55#1
Hello all.
As most Westerners, I was brought up with Christanity, knowing absolutly nothing about Buddhism.
I am wondering what many of you think that Westerners need to know about True Buddha School.
In remembering the first time I walked into our chapter I was in awe, and for several years later, especially that first year, I had many why's.
I would like to see your comments.
Many thanks.
Brenda
jessie10/25/02 at 00:59:57#2Re: Comments on Buddhismchristians tend to question the concept of karma.
there is this question which always stump me when i am asked:
--> everything on earth is God-given in the concept of Christianity; in what way do plants and mother nature come into the picture in Buddhism?
My answer is: that all existence is the creation of the veiled and differentiating mind... i just dunno how to continue from there. my thoughts somehow got stuck...
maybe brenda, you can provide an answer...or someone out there ..
jessie10/25/02 at 01:09:19#3Re: Comments on Buddhismor it is like saying, we blew out the only lit candle in the all-dark room. did the eyes see the resulting darkness or is it the inherent nature of the darkness (ie, the room is dark). In the case of mother nature, do we see trees in nature as gifts to us, or are trees just...trees?
if we were to free ourselves from all these, we will realise everything are a creation of our mind, and it is up to us to free from these?
i was thinking about Keenu Reeves' Matrix as i was typing this..
jessie
(highly stressed by work)
Last edited 10/25/02 at 01:16:11 by jessie_loh
darrellmc10/27/02 at 06:53:44#4Re: Comments on BuddhismI think that what Christians, or Westerners in general, want to KNOW about Buddhism and what they want to TELL you about Buddhism are two different things. I use the term Westerners outside of any racial definitions. There are Chinese people born and raised in Hong Kong who are more Western than you and me put together. ;) In fact, I’m not sure that it is a good idea to even talk about this subject in this way. A lot of Asians, although Buddhism is part of their culture, and they have heard about it all their lives, regard it the same way some people in other cultures might regard Christianity or Islam. It is their parents’ and their grandparents’ religion. Something like a ‘forgiveable embarrassment’ which subject you don’t want to bring up when you have friends over. Something like “My parents are Buddhist.”, said to your friends in the same tone of voice that you might say, “Uncle Ed has really bad gas, and farts a lot. Just stay upwind.”
Most of our exposure, at least my generation’s, has been from the Kung Fu TV show. Ah, Grasshopper! Other movies and such only present the usual stereotypes. Typically, Westerners know very little about Buddhism and care even less.
So, in general, there is a great Ignorance about even the basics. Something to do with burning incense, meditating, chanting some meaningless phrases, and being mysterious and profound.
The really sad thing is that, in asking Buddhists what it is all about, I often get the same answer…something to do with burning incense, meditating, chanting some meaningless phrases and being mysterious and profound. ;D
Christians don’t have exclusive rights to the “my side is better than your side, you are hopelessly lost, therefore I must save you by making you see things my way” attitude. Ignorance is universal. It is everywhere. As the Heart Sutra says, "there is no end to ignorance." (Editors: note, "there is no end to ignorance" and "there is no ending of ignorance" are two different statements. I was playing with the words.) I am tempted to found a religion based on ignorance. It would be very successful. Then I realize that it has already been done. There is nothing to know, except that there is nothing to know. Realize the truth of that statement, and then realize that since it is true, it is false. There really IS nothing to know, which of course includes the fact that there is nothing to know. (cont.)
darrellmc10/27/02 at 08:38:21#5Re: Comments on BuddhismBut seriously, folks. The problem with most religions, Buddhism included, is that given the situation of a sick person, they do the equivalent of bringing in a lot of medical textbooks and reading them all to the patient. The end result is that he is not only still sick and in pain, but now bored and confused as well. ;)
Better to follow the way of Buddha and begin by dealing with suffering, the causes of suffering and the way to the elimination of suffering. Let the discussion of emptiness wait for a later day, if at all. One thing I have seen in my journey over these years has been that everyone I meet has his own brand of pain that he carries around with him. Some are more well adjusted to it than others; some scream and rant, some keep quiet, some look for exciting diversions and distractions to let them not need to think about it for a while, but all have it. We even have a lot of people who think that becoming unconscious or numb through the use of drugs or even becoming dead is preferable to life, if life has to be this painful.
I'd like to see this discussion tend toward "What are the practical, every day results of Buddhism." Not theoretical, but practical.
I just got off the phone with my Mom and she told me something that, as a son, made me feel good. She said that she had been talking to my brother about me, and she told him,"You know what I like about Darrell? If things go his way, he says "Fine!" and is happy. If things don't go his way, he says "Fine!" and is happy." Not adjusted to the disappointment or handling the disappointment well...not having any disappointment in the first place. On the contrary, looking at it all as if it is a great adventure and a nice surprise. If you have rice to eat, eat rice.
If you have potatoes, don't try to eat rice. Enjoy your potatoes.
If you have nothing, call it fasting, and consider yourself lucky that your spiritual growth was "forced upon you by circumstance"
Embrace the pain, contemplate it and realize it for what it is, and what it isn't. Be grateful for the opportunity to learn. In Buddhist terms, be grateful for the momentary possession of a human mind. Use it. If you like to play with words, as I do..."I once lost my senses and came to my mind, then I lost my mind and came to my senses." an old Zen saying..or "let your mind become your heart and your heart become your mind." That either makes a great amount of sense or none at all, take your pick.
You will always, always get exactly what you need..that "most needful thing". You will always, always get exactly what you deserve. There is perfect justice in a perfect universe. (If you don't believe that, what universe are you comparing this one with? ;D) Mimosa, you don't deserve a better life. You have a wonderful life already. Heck, just look at how many great friends you have, and that's just one part of it. You are loved, respected and admired by a great many folks who are worthy in their own right. You are close to not just one, but several very wise teachers. I am picking on you here. Would you rather be you or me? I had rather be you, so if you had rather be me, then there we are! ;)
One of the most beautiful phrases I have ever heard is what Buddha said to Sariputra. "I have known you."
This is the play; this is the drama. But the roles we are playing are not us...just some costumes and dialogue we learn and perform. We'll get together later and have a laugh and perhaps a cup of tea or something and say things like "You are good! You had even me believing it for moment there."
Buddhism is not a belief, it is not a philosophy. It can not be explained. Like trying to explain the taste of peppermint.
It tastes like.........well....peppermint. Of course, you could go off in the direction of "it doesn't taste like peanut butter" or "it doesn't taste like beef" or "it doesn't taste like asparagus", but there's no end to that, and you're no better off than when you started.
If the time is right; if karma has ripened, and not just in you, since karma is not a personal possession, then the other or you will know what to ask. You or the other will know what to answer. "When the student is ready, the teacher will appear." In fact, until karma is ripe, then you won't be meeting in the first place.
Don't seek converts. One can not 'convert' to Buddhism. One can not 'become a Buddhist'. You can not join that which already includes you. I believe that Grand Master Lu once said that you can not go toward True Buddha, nor away from True Buddha. All we can do is work on ourself, look for commonalities and speak from the heart. I think that True Buddha School is not meant as 'a true school of Buddha' but as 'a school of True Buddha'. Important distinction.
One simple statement: "All this drama and trauma are not necessary." One followup statement: "It is you yourself who is doing it; it is not something being done to you or something just randomly happening to you." To me that is Buddhism in a Nutshell.
Which is not to say that we should try to become emotionless or unfeeling. It is like going to a movie or a play. You will miss so much of life, including opportunities to learn and opportunities to do good, if you just sit there thinking,"This is just a movie. Those are just actors." No, accept it a being real momentarily. Cry if crying is appropriate; laugh if you feel like laughing. Only, when the movie is over, don't confuse it with reality.
celestialmaiden10/27/02 at 17:13:57#6Re: Comments on BuddhismWow Darell, that was well said. I think that that is not only important information for Westerners to know but also for all Buddhists and True Buddha Students. The most important things we learn about Buddhism are from the heart; those are things that no one can teach us and are beyond that which we can learn in academic study.
But speaking of which...I have taken some religious courses at the University. (I am actually changing my major to do a BA in religious studies with a major in Eastern Religion.) Until taking these courses I never actually realized the profound influence of Chinese Tradition and Taoism in the True Buddha School. Therefore I think it is important to point out which characteristics of the True Buddha School come from which tradition.
For example,
Taoist influence - Concepts of Yin and Yang, Qi, and Fetal breathing
Chinese Tradition - Burning Gold paper, Ancestor veneration, Earth Deity, Chinese Zodiac
Mahayana Influence - Various Sutras, Bodhisattva's, Western Paradise
Vajrayana Influence - Mudras, Visualizations, Set-up of the Shrine, Yogas
The reason why I feel it is important to understand these influences are because I used to consider my beliefs and values as strictly Buddhist. However, through study I actually realize that the True Buddha School is a very unique school which incorporates Chinese tradition, Taoism, Vajrayana and Mahayana. In fact, I realized that there is no one school in Buddhism that I completely identify myself with because the True Buddha School incorporates so many elements of other influences. Therefore I think it is important for people not to mistake the True Buddha School as strictly one form of thought and not another, but rather a new sect emergence influenced by a few traditions.
Buddhafly10/28/02 at 17:57:54#7Re: Comments on Buddhism
I recently won free digital cable for 3 months. This includes some of the higher channels. Tonight I was watching a show about the H.H. Dalai Lama. Nothing that I really havn't seen before, or that I didn't know. Yet there is a fondness of the dharma impliments and the chanting and the monks that feels so right. Even the Tibetan people remind me of my own.
I needed to remind myself that this is an attachment, desire of things known and not known. This makes it a little sad, knowing I do not really belong, yet I know this is ego as well.
I must agree with brother Darrell, about the importance of knowing and understanding the Four noble truths and the Eight fold path. I find that this is really the key to understanding Buddhism.
For me there is no need to try to convert others. I think it is more on an affinity basis than anything else. This is something I have seen a lot of.
Many people are also interested in knowing the future through palm readings, Feng-Shui, also how the uses of a Fu can help them. They seem to want to beleive in something that is proven to them as true. I do not find this as unusual.
Personally I think there is a scientific explanation for all the phenomena, that is yet to be discovered but one day will be proven true. (The kind of thing about sound vibration and frequency, color and mudra, and mind and spirit).
Many people, including myself, became enthralled with the movie the Matrix. What was so special about it that appealed to so many? Now Lord of the Rings is a biggy among many that have read the book the first time around or that it is entirely new for them or both. I will mention Harry Potter in that as well as that is the series of boks that had my own daughter to begin to take a real interest in reading for the first time. What is it that is so appealing about these things?
Jessie. Your question has me stumpted. I can answer it in many different ways that make sense to me, yet I would rather look up what the Buddha says on this one.
I do enjoy the analogy that life is a movie, or a stage.
How I see it as the script is written, most of it at least, and we are the actors of the movie. Quite intriging I say!
Sometimes says "little Grasshopper" 'I can watch myself playing the role, and sometimes I can actually watch the watcher'. The camera whirling, the director directing, and myself standing alone in the spotlight.
It may seems a lonely tale compaired to Christanities version,
although I see many similarities, I can see a longer line of credits at the end.
Lyciss10/29/02 at 03:06:57#8Re: Comments on BuddhismLife hit Lyciss on the head, "What was that?" Lyciss keeps walking...
if this life is gold
do i sell myself to others?
my thoughts its impurity
burned away in cultivation fire
i my cage
seek freedom thats already had
if my eyes dont see
what good is it to know?
i offer you a flower
but you still say no...
a moments release
the dog runs wild
watching the mind
the paint gets dry...
i realized the other day, that when one does good, one does bad... life is nothing more then moments of exchange...
there is no success because you fail to see what you lose in the persuit of it...
sacrafice the lessor to gain the greater until you realize the lessor was what you wanted in the first place...
if we are intelligent, why are we so dumb?
i have no clue what im talking about because samsara has blinded me...
om mani padme hum
Last edited 10/29/02 at 03:19:14 by Lyciss
darrellmc10/29/02 at 08:30:57#9Re: Comments on BuddhismYes, I believe that is important to note that TBS is not one practice, but many in one. So many doorways for each to walk through according to his own background and affinities. In the list of all the influences, from all traditions, including Taoism and other not-strictly-Buddhist Chinese practices, there is one to add to the list...Zen and other ' instantaneous enlightenment outside the scriptures'.
There are supposedly 84,000 doorways to the Dharma. I heard a funny story one time. It was relayed to me by a Caucasian monk. Two candidates were being interviewed by a team of masters of a certain Chinese Buddhist sect. The Asian candidate was asked, "What is the doorway to Dharma?", to which he replied, "There are 84,000 such doorways." He was accepted. Then the Caucasian candidate was asked the same question and answered the same way. "There are 84,000 such doorways." Then the masters told him, "Name them!"
Just a joke, folks. Anyway....in regard to the question about nature, and how to look at it....there is a thing which, so far as I know does not have a name, but ought to. We should invent a word which means something you believe, although there is no proof one way or the other whether it is true or not, but it doesn't matter, so you might as well believe if you want to, especially if it is helpful or pleasant to believe and does no one any harm anyway. (You see why we need such a word.) For example, if you look at nature as a personal gift to you, what's the harm? Much benefit actually. There is a mockingbird which sings outside my door most mornings. I fed the mockingbirds some suet all year and they really liked it. One female mockingbird even made her nest in my garage and raised a family. She only had to leave her nest for a little bit and fly about fifty feet to get food, and therefore didn't have to risk leaving and looking for food elsewhere, and possibly getting killed in the process. (Life is rough for birds. Their main pursuit in life is finding food while trying to keep from becoming some other animal's food.) Now, whether it is the same bird coming to sing or one of her kids, and whether she is coming over to sing for me and thank me or not, I choose to believe that this is all true. If it is a fantasy, so what? I don't care, the mockingbird is not offended, nobody else cares if it is true. Children understand and believe it. Believing it makes the world a happier, better place. So what that I told her "You're welcome" and she bowed. Maybe she was looking at a bug on the ground at that particular moment. Maybe. Maybe not.
One time somebody asked me if it was right to look for omens.
I told here, "Sure, if you only look for good omens." Like, "I was on my way to a job interview and the sun came out from behind a cloud." Good omen. or "I was on my way to a job interview and there were no clouds" Good omen. Or "It was very cloudy and rained all day." Good omen. You get the idea. ;)
darrellmc10/29/02 at 08:33:26#10Re: Comments on BuddhismBrenda,
One thing I left out about the analogy of actors in a play or a movie. It is actually improv, and we are making up the script and plot as we go. :)
darrellmc10/29/02 at 08:39:07#11Re: Comments on BuddhismAnd Lycsis.....your words and poetry touch me. I understand.
That worries me a little. ;) But samsara doesn't confuse you. It is like Grand Master Lu says about modern advertising..it just makes your head swim. All one can do is go "Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha!"
lian hua dance10/29/02 at 10:21:40#12Re: Comments on Buddhism :)
I am proud to breath the same air as Lyciss.
Buddhafly10/29/02 at 11:16:07#13Re: Comments on Buddhism
Lyciss.
This may help.
"Let go of the past, let go of the future,
let go of the present, and cross over to the farther shore of existence. With mind wholly liberated,
you shall come no more to birth and death."
Dhammapada 348
Buddhafly10/29/02 at 11:19:17#14Re: Comments on Buddhism
Darrell.
I challenge you to do something in your
movie that would be out of the script. :)
Lyciss10/29/02 at 16:27:24#15Re: Comments on BuddhismDarrell,
actually im very confused by samsara... there are so many things that seem so beautiful, so many things to chase after but i know they are also misquitoes, stinging me... one moment i think i have the repelant and the next time i look, im welting up... samsara is our blessing, samsara is our curse...
i cant wish for bodhi but i can wish for a new car...
om mani padme hum
Last edited 10/29/02 at 16:27:55 by Lyciss
Buddhafly10/29/02 at 16:44:21#16Re: Comments on Buddhism
At one time the thought of beoming a Bodhisattva
was repelling to me. The reason being because the thought
of coming back here was just too much! Eventually through practice I softened.
I stopped thinking of me and I began to put others first.
Bodhi-path: The way or path to the Supreme Enlightenment of Buddhahood.
I see nothing "wrong" with wanting something. It is the "grasping" that can prove to bring suffering.
In the Four Noble truths, Buddha Shakyamuni taught that attachment to self is the root cause of suffering:
From craving [attachment] springs grief, from craving springs fear; For him who is wholly free from craving, there is no grief, much less fear. (Dhammapada Sutra. In Narada Maha Thera, The Buddha and His Teachings.)
If you don't have attachments, naturally you're liberated ... In ancient times, there was an old cultivator who asked for instructions from a monk, "Great Monk, let me ask you, how can I attain liberation?" The Great monk said, "Who tied you up?" This old cultivator answered, "Nobody tied me up." The monk said, "Then why do you seek liberation?" (Hsuan Hua, tr., Flower Adornment Sutra, "Pure Conduct," chap. 11.)
For the seasoned practitioner, even the Dharma must not become an attachment. As an analogy, to clean one's shirt, it is necessary to use soap. However, if the soap is not then rinsed out, the garment will not be truly clean. Similarly, the practitioner's mind will not be fully liberated until he severs attachment to everything, including the Dharma itself.
mimosa10/29/02 at 19:21:10#17Re: Comments on Buddhism#you comparing this one with? ) Mimosa, you don't deserve a #better life. You have a wonderful life already. Heck, just look
I ought to be careful of people that talk behind my back or write in front of me rather :-)
#part of it. You are loved, respected and admired by a great #many folks who are worthy in their own right. You are close
Boy..I never know that I am so rich :-) gee... :o :o :o
#on you here. Would you rather be you or me? I had rather #be you, so if you had rather be me, then there we are!
I'd rather be nobody :-) hahah
Mimosa
Lyciss10/29/02 at 20:35:29#18Re: Comments on BuddhismDance,
im lucky to share the same planet with you...
Brenda,
i remember talking to you about being a bodhisattva, i know you have it in you to return, since i believe you have already made that choice in the past... a bodhisattva who has forgot she is a bodhisattva...
om mani padme hum
Last edited 10/29/02 at 20:38:02 by Lyciss
darrellmc10/30/02 at 00:43:36#19Re: Comments on BuddhismBrenda,
I wrote a long, very creative and funny response to your challenge. Then somehow I pushed the wrong button and it disappeared.
All my choices instantly went to nil at that point. It doesn't matter.
I would send you a blank screen, but the problem about talking about something is that....well, you have to talk about it. (Which is like just talking about food, instead of eating; the more you talk the hungrier you get.)
So, instead of my clever answer, I will tell you a story.
We all know about the pessimistic outlook that the glass is half empty, and the optimistic outlook that the glass is half full. An optimist and a pessimist were engaged in a rather pointless debate about which was the better outlook. Both made some good points. The optimist said that looking at it as half full allowed for, even anticipated, that it would someday be filled, so made for hope. The pessimist pointed out that looking at it as half empty allowed for and even anticipated that one day it would be empty, so that way there would be no disappointment when it became so. Point and counterpoint. They both made a good argument. Then a fellow came in, picked up the glass of water, drank it and burped. "Good water!", he said.
darrellmc10/30/02 at 00:50:24#20Re: Comments on BuddhismI was reading Brenda's post about becoming a Bodhisattva, and a silly thought hit me. (so I hit it back)
A Buddhist AA group. Their motto, instead of "One day at a time." is "One lifetime at a time"
lian hua dance10/30/02 at 04:55:11#21Re: Comments on Buddhism :)
A friend of mine gave me some advice the other day ..
If you have one, take another;
If you have two, put one back.
Lyciss10/30/02 at 16:44:53#22Re: Comments on Buddhisman according to the buddhist, the glass is both half full and half empty... think about it... so does this make you optimistic and pessimistic at the same time? ofcourse it does... how else could you be Mara and a Buddha at the same time?
om mani padme hum
celestialmaiden10/31/02 at 13:43:52#23Re: Comments on BuddhismDarrell,
You said that Zen Buddhism also has a profound influence on the True Buddha School. Yes, I have been contemplating that too but cannot understand in what way. Please elaborate so I can use it as an essay topic for future reference. I need help. Thanks! ;D
Luljeta10/31/02 at 20:45:48#24Re: Comments on BuddhismHi Celestial Maiden,
not to take away from Darrell since you did ask him, just a quick answer to your question:
True Buddha School practices within the Fourth Level Empowerment: Utmost Secret Yoga (e.g., Highest Tantra Yoga) are actually Zen.
The first three sequences of empowerment in TBS are just preparation.
In Zen, people start at the highest level. In Vajrayana/Tantrayana, people go through the first three levels of empowerment, then they try to penetrate Zen.
Om mani padme hum
darrellmc11/01/02 at 16:22:54#25Re: Comments on BuddhismYes...what she said.
Also, a person can reasonably look on everything in the fundamental guru yoga practice prior to meditation as preparation.
A beginning, a middle and an end.