raychin11/13/02 at 18:43:19#1Hi, everyone.
How are they related? Can I incorporate Zen meditation to Tantrayana practice? I was reading this book on Zen meditation. The Three Pillars of Zen by Roshi Phillip Kapleau. Some people utilized Koans to gain enlightenment such as asking the question "Who am I?" or meditating on Mu. Does Tantrayana have similar practices? I read a discussion forum where someone said that Zen is associated with Highest Yoga practices. Is that true? and how is it associated? Thanks.
lian hua dance11/13/02 at 21:32:00#2Re: Similarities between Tantrayana and Zen :)
Hmmm.. GM had something to say about this (here and elsewhere):
Dharma Talk by Living Buddha Lian Sheng on 15/07/96
Once a disciple of mine wrote to me and asked: ¨Zen Buddhism points straight to human mind. A Zen practitioner can be enlightened as a Buddha once he sees his Buddha nature. Why do Tantric cultivators have to go through the trouble of cultivating ¨Qi, Mai, Ming Dian¨ (Energy, central column and bright spot) as well as ¨Rainbow Light Great Attainment¨ before they can be enlightened?¨
My answer to his question is as follows:
¨Some cultivators are endowed with great capacity to cultivate while others might not be so lucky. And in general, most of us have average intellectual capacity. Only those with high intellectual capacity can cultivate Zen Buddhism - which is also known as ¨Wu Xiang De Mi Zhong¨ - Formless Tantrayana Buddhism.¨
First, Zen advocates the existence of Buddha nature, and wants its followers to fully understand it.
Second, Zen values experiment. Putting into practice is more important than awareness of the existence of Buddha nature. In other words, after awareness of the existence of Buddha nature, Zen practitioners must find ways and means to prove its existence. If he is able to do so, he will be enlightened as a Buddha instantly - albeit, this can only be done by people with exceptional capacity.
Only Zen practice can be considered formless; other schools of Buddhism cannot be separated from form
- Even Tantrayana has to progress from form to formless. Eventually there is no difference between Zen and Tantrayana. The only difference if any, is that Tantrayana has more followers, and from form it progresses to formless cultivation.
Why are Zen practitioners able to be enlightened without cultivating Qi, Mai, Ming Dian and Rainbow Light Great Attainment? Because they try to prove the true nature of time and emptiness from the outset.
Diamond Sutra mentioned abut timeless:¨The past mind cannot be retained; the present mind cannot be ascertained (as present will become past in no time); and the future mind is still a big question mark. Hence all the three minds cannot be obtained.¨ This is how the concept of timeless is used an analogy to show the existence of emptiness in the material world.
Zen Buddhism is difficult to cultivate as it puts theory into experiments and in the process one gains an insight into the nature of emptiness.
Once somebody told a Zen master: ¨I have gained enlightenment!¨
Zen master asked him: ¨What have you been enlightened?¨
He replied:¨The past mind cannot be retained, the present mind cannot be ascertained and the future mind cannot be attained. As all the three stages of mind cannot be obtained, hence everything is nothing but emptiness!¨
On hearing this, the Zen master picked up something and smashed his head hard.
He screamed and shouted: ¨It¡s very painful! Why did you hit me?¨
Zen master said: ¨Since everything can be reduced to nothingness, why cant you view it this way when I hit you?
Obviously the theoretical aspect of emptiness is different from its practical aspect. After mastering the concept we must put it into practice. Enlightenment is not guaranteed for those with high intelligence, let alone those with lesser wisdom who want to cultivate Zen.
Understanding the nature of emptiness, and embodying it with our physical bodies, we can achieve the Rainbow Light Great Attainment. As the truth is not far from the theory expounded, if we are able to have psychic response with the great void, our enlightenment will be guaranteed.
As I have mentioned before:
In Zen cultivation, when one is unmindful in meditation and enters into the great void. The cosmos-conscientiousness will enter into one¡¦s body and has a union with one.
Tantrayana believes that in Samadhi, all the elements in our life will converge at our brow-point.
All the energy will be able to move freely in our bodies when we are oblivious to our existence. Once we truly understand the meaning of emptiness, all the elements in our body, including Qi, Mai, and Ming Dian will be translucent, and energy will flow freely.
Although Zen practitioners never really cultivate Tantrayana, they have actually attained the Tantric fruit.
This is because eventually even Qi, Mai and Ming Dian would be reduced to nothingness. In other words, Zen can prove the emptiness of Qi, Mai and Ming Dian; while Tantrayana recognizes Qi, Mai and Ming Dian and uses them to prove the stage of emptiness. The ultimate aim for both schools are one and the same.
If you follow my reasoning, you will be able to answer why Zen practitioners do not have to cultivate Qi, Mai and Ming Dian or for that matter the Rainbow Light Great Attainment, and yet they can be enlightened. Tantrayana has to use Qi, Mai and Ming Dian to bring out the Rainbow Light in ourselves and prove the existence of emptiness.
Tantrayana uses physical items to prove emptiness while Zen just views everything as emptiness. This is the subtle difference.
The past mind cannot be retained. The present mind cannot be ascertained (as it will become past slowly). And all of you know for sure, the future is full of uncertainty, hence it cannot be attained. In fact there is nothing in this world, we can claim as ours. By means of experiments and verifications, we should transcend this material world.
Zen is one of the most magnificent school of religion; and Tantrayana School can be used to support the doctrine of Zen Buddhism.
That is all for today.
Om Mani Padme Hum
Last edited 11/14/02 at 17:18:32 by Buddhafly